i was thinking about how i probably sound critical to some people when i post on here about how i dont think people are apologizing right. Forgiveness does not address that issue at all. James River Church is one of the largest Assemblies of God churches in the United States. It is profoundly ironic that false teachers twist this particular scripture in an abusive way to their advantage just so that they can continue abusing. Sam, I sincerely hope that nothing Ive written ever makes you rethink your relationship with God. Yes, I have been witnessing first hand over the years of the Calvinism in the AG. But I never want to deliberately post any false information so I do appreciate any corrections you can add. Good point as far as it goes. paul was all about not having followers or being glorified. John Lindell, pastor of James River Church, represents a new breed of reformed Assembly of God pastors yes Calvinism in the Assembly of God! Gus, it is very naive not to take into consideration that Driscolls constant media attention did not influence the TVC response to their own problem in any way. He was a mass murdering thug. When that donor eventually supported our decision to leave peaceably, Jamie Munson was in a pickle. What I dont get is why Hillsong and Assemblies of God (James River Church), who have extremely different views on women in the church would even consider someone like Mark Driscoll as a special speaker. And yes, Baptists and other evangelicals have evolved to believing similar using other methods of mediation for people. Its easy to be friendly, humble, attentive, polite, , to your peers and to your superiors. @ LT: "Our desire for things God has forbidden is a reflection of how sin has distorted us, rather than a reflection of how Christ has made us.". I think many. And equally astonishing is that other Christian leaders support his abusive style or at least overlook it. So quick question if anyone wants to take a whack at it. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you. Like the guy who was in charge of SGM, he got away scot-free and is doing well for himself despite the outcry against him. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i7lv9oMjv_0&sns=em. I call that tragic because there are still a lot of honest pastors and churches out there. No coffee bar, etc. I dont want other people having that same regret. Christian institutions are trying to express an organic Jesus in non-organic structures. "Homosexual sin is not the only serious sin. None of them see anything wrong with this. Having a large following for a while, being insulated from most of reality, produces this result. http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm Its appalling that through your words and actions you are able to re-injure the real victims with such ease all while smiling and chuckling on your stage. Additionally, Jonna Petry (who started the blog Joyful Exiles) was shunned along with the Petry children. And Ive certainly heard many tales of people who were awful people moving onto ministry later on in life. . Mark also provided the all important yet elusive authentic community so long as you bow to him and stay on his good size. stephen is suffering for doing right. When not enough graduates came forward they started begging people please any graduate or relative of a graduate, even if you just graduated from Kindergarten, please please come get your free gift because what Kindergartner doesnt need advice on how to buy a car? How can they do that? I doubt he walked away broke. In his introductory remarks, he spoke of Marks kindness, humility. If there is one thing I think is missing from the entire narrative of interpreting scripture it is the theme of wisdom running through it from Genesis on. sometimes i have hurt people because i have gotten caught up in the excitement of a new orginazation or enterprise but i have never been able to stay that way long, my conscience pricks me until i stop and go back and make things right with people i have hurt. Did Driscoll forget about the part where Saul went away for years after his conversion. Che was tots adorbs. His auto suggestive words were a dead give away! You want to go all Colonel Jessup and rant about the truth? LT wrote: 12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight. where is Mark Driscolls apology to over a thousand children in two orphanages? Feel sorry for him instead as a burned out shell without compassion. 13 And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err. He saw it as bad government.". Driscoll was never really qualified to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the first place he proved that time and time again by his un-Christlike behavior in word and action. It came swiftly and with great effect. Location. It shows also in our perception of ourselves and others when we still have areas of sin. I am not surprised he is mobilizing his church, which packs a powerful political punch through the sheer number of members and, I believe, their commitment to vote. Which is all to say that if he was a wanted man back in Jerusalem and the believers did not trust him, then some of the credit for his going away for a few years goes to those who did not let him just keep on keeping on, despite some abrupt lateral entry into proto-christianity. And Shifting the Blame. It is like embezzlers working around money. This was not due to the kindness of the elders (who told us we could not leave because we were under church discipline). Visitors are given special parking spaces, valets to accommodate them, some mega even have special VIP seating. I would argue the reverse. Humility? So we were allowed to leave in good standing. So now is the time ta share with kind folks the destination of their eternal soul? All the celebrity has to do is play the victim/repented card and teach cheap grace. How much do James River Church employees make? They want their congregations and the world at large to believe that there are no amount of misdeeds that a pastor can perform, no matter how egregious, that means they shouldnt be instantly forgiven and returned to the pulpit ASAP. Why should we be surprised? Any allegations are probably not as bad as the truth. Those who challenged him were openly chastised, disgracefully removed from membership and/or shunned until the organization he created finally said enough is enough and sent him packing (however, with a nice severance package). I only write the truth about Gateway in order to warn others, never to discourage anyone. (glorifies paul. Even after becoming a believer he wanted more. Others obviously put a lot more emphasis on organizational structures, so they might see things differently. http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/answers/jewish-polemics/texts/christian-proof-texting/, from reading rob smiths post about the orphanage Agathos in Africa being defunded by Marks Hill church and marks telling missionaries not to work with them it is clear where Matt Chandler got the idea. If others havent heard this song yet, give it a try and see what you think. Or that they were called to be what they are. As a follow-up (Sydney Morning Herald 1 July 2015), Hillsong conference shows interview with controversial US Pastor, Mark Driscoll see link Have you not spilled all your dark secrets at Freedom Ministry? this discussion you make today determines your destiny, God wants you to forgive. I wish I knewits beyond comprehension. 11 The Lord told him, Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. what they are. i have met people that have told me that they went to gateway (and other churches that are similar) but no longer do without ever saying why. his heart is revealed by the countenance of his face. (I guess angles smile a lot) Mark also provided the all important yet elusive authentic community In many ways, Barnabus is like Pauls pastor for a time. Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. of course i have no idea really what is driving mark driscoll but thats what i think it might be. Has he asked them to forgive him? For the Christmas services, additional services were added to further provide for social distancing. No it wasnt, thanks for the insights. Was Pastor Lindells statement just a slip or an attempt to rewrite history? So, that is why I think it would have been wise for Driscoll to remove himself from the limelight and assume a servant posture. At some point, with enough outcry and rage from outside, they may hopefully see it as you did looking up at that 3 x 5 card on your bulletin. What I do really pray for is that the followers start questioning and thinking about what they support and find freedom in their own seeking of Christ instead of following a guru and his interpretations. I find that when the Lord is using my mouth it is never vulgar or rude. "The mayor was not in favor of this ordinance," Lindell told his congregation. My heart aches for all those whom Mark Driscoll hurt from the Petrys and Meyers to the young and impressionable. Before people know it, feeling loved and valued (and not realizing it was due to preplanned manipulation). I'm not sure I find that expansion of "serious sin" cheating? He was not participating in stonings. 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. They dont (want to) get it. I have always found this aspect of Pauls story very interesting. Plus Driscoll has to be way cheaper than Judah Smith or Carl Lentz, the current kings of radical chic. i hope the same is happening to others who have been victims of spiritual abuse and church cult tactics. Great insight. At that time, although I led Agathos, I was not taking a salary from Agathos. "We all have desires that are warped as a result of our fallen nature: pride, selfishness, greed, anger, bitterness, unforgiveness, lust, envy, covetousness, chemical addiction," Lindell said. As the CEO of MHC was MD completely unaware of what was going on with the Global Fund? Think of it as telling a kid how special they are every day and giving them a trophy daily. Also, there is a difference, IMO, between forgiveness and trust restoration. I completely understand why you are so skeptical. These leaders are lacking even a basic level of discernment or judgement. Before people know it, feeling loved and valued (and not realizing it was due to preplanned manipulation) they are plugged in several days a week, basically dropping out of their non-church activities. I met the pastor. If you take his quotes about his economic policies in Cuba and substitute covenant or biblical Gospel he sounds about the same as the pastors we are discussing. Why am I concerned? It was especially appropriate to hear last night since our current sermon series is on the topic of Worship. So, if he became a member of a church, attended that for a while, accepting to do all kinds of unglamorous jobs that church members often do for their church, apprenticed with a pastor in a mainline church, where the position of pastor has a lot less power, tried to reconcile with the people he treated the worst well, maybe. Sometimes the writers have an agenda, at others, there is more of an assumption of knowledge that the original readers/hearers possessed that we dont. It is identical to another certain entertainment industry where faking it means everything and in my opinion the industry representing the older profession is less offensive. I'm in on that. These are the views of Steve Pokin, the News-Leader's columnist. pure grace are you or have been in similar situation to stephen? News articles and such are also greatly appreciated. It was like my eyes were open. . It is all choreographed and it works! James River Church Engaged Employer Overview 38 Reviews 63 Jobs 26 Salaries -- Interviews 9 Benefits 47 Photos 12 Diversity Follow + Add a Review Employee Review See All Reviews ( 38) 2.0 Former Employee, more than 3 years Leadership not always what they portray Mar 2, 2017 - Anonymous Employee in Ozark, MO Recommend CEO Approval @ sam: I seriously doubt that most younger people then or now who appropriate his image (here in N. America) know much of anything about him. Its all good until (insert question or issue). They will promise to give you an authentic community to do life with. Who has wounded you? I am a current attender who was raised by people who love this church but I definitely have my confusions on a few things. I would think that rehabilitation for him would be finding a job where he was not the boss and not the teacher. The best thing about it is one young woman had incredible courage. This is off topic but your question has been the basis of discussion with many associates for the last 6 months, many recently leaving an authoritarian church. I also have recently spoken to another ministry leader involved in orphan care in Africa. It is the normalization of sociopathy. Could Driscoll really appeal to people now using his Macho Man shtick? Even in the Roman Catholic Church, the obvious structure does not prevent sin or other problems, so I dont think it is a matter either of too much or not enough structure making us fall short of perfection. He is not going to go run to a car dealership the minute he gets out of jail. Are you not reporting instant healing to keep the confirmed miracle count up? I am always eager and willing to learn, so no argument here. Posted by NancyAlcorn at 1:06 PM 2 comments. then mark goes on to teach us that we must forgive even if the person never admits wrong or says I am sorry: vengance is where you make someone pay. The name Che is a nickname, short for pig (chancho), for a reason. Yep. A cynical, weary part of me says theyll never change. Did Paul plagiarize? Its the same game he has played. So where is the money coming from now? Association of Related Churches Did Paul hire a company to buy his books and get them on the bestseller list? This has taken a toll on me and my family, as well as those close to me, the former senior pastor wrote in a letter posted on the ROCs website. At a certain level they wanted leaderless teams who would function by consensus. And he actually dismissed several of them as how Sissies or men who wear product in their hair act. it isnt anguish if i dont care and i am just a head of some church deciding that someone cant seperate or divorce or annul because i dont have time to look into it right now and i will get back to them with my judgment when i think its appropriate. It is possible for somebody who has a cutting tongue and a big mouth to stop. Are you not reporting instant healing to keep the confirmed miracle count up? Its more the non-complementarian position to argue that women should be allowed to preach/lead based on gifting and that sounds like the argument Driscoll is raising in the quotes by him I placed in this post. I could not exactly put my finger on what was wrong. I strongly recommend the brief article by Jon Zens at Searching Together entitled Going to the Root Mark Driscoll and the Celebrity System. At his height of fame Driscoll was the bad boy of the Christian world. Now the floodgates will open wide now that his massive deception becomes public knowledge in Australia and the UK. 14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah. I find it hard to believe he truly didnt know anything before last weekend! It probably did. LT: Certainly they all hire each other as guest speakers in order to pay large honorariums from tithe dollars that end up in each others personal bank accounts. Excellent comment! Yes, well, my sense of humor doesnt always translate well in the blogosphere . http://www.mercyministries.org/, though she scrubbed some posts referring to her involvement when it was hillsong ministries mercy ministries there are still a few unscrubs left here and there. What is the biblical prescription for sinning Elders? forgiveness means its paid in full. Youre right. And then they wonder that people not in their bubble have very little understanding for their version of religion and cry persecution. AFter the persecution and time in Antioch, Barnabus seems to make a decision on his own to go to Tarsus to find Paul. Maybe six months from now, therell be another terrible story, and well know that the BSd us. It was really bad, disastrous I might even say. If any blogger made such a vague blanket statement as this theyd be called out immediately. And every Wednesay at 7pm! Judging a pastors or missionaries repentance is not being critical of pastors, its saying, this is a position that has really high moral qualifications and if you dont have them, get out of the pulpit. Brad Pitt cancelled his wedding there due to the churchs anti-gay preaching. But MD has been a jerk as far as Ive read, not a criminal or anything. Nor to any of the other dead bodies behind the bus. (KY3) - OZARK, Mo. He urged Christians living in the city limits of Springfield to vote to repeal the law and to leave church with a Yes-On-Repeal yard sign. Some are stronger and more capable of speaking out and as we feel able to I believe that we must. That does not mean you want harm to come to them. Albuquerque Blue reminded me of something about mark driscoll during the fall. What am I saying? Im trying to get people to understand it because theres a whole lot of stuff thats out there thats being said, much of it is just just simply not even close to truth. What is tragic is that these events will lead everyone who has two braincells to rub together to come to the following default conclusions: If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are true. yelling at the referees for too many seasons. You need to check yourself Lindell then apologize and repent. I know people who were previously baptized that jumped in to get the swag. Van, I agree with Deb. I wouldnt want to walk in his shoes and succumb to the large amount of pride he exhibits, what an empty way to live. I acknowledge that one persons terrorist can be another persons freedom fighter. Its a measure of arrogance, tweeted retired attorney and flight instructor Jeanne Mann on Sunday with a photo from the gathering. A grunge rock Lord Byron mad, bad and dangerous to know. You are so spot on. But that does not restore the trust in the relationship, and trust is the blood of good relationships. Well, Jesus, Stephen, Paul, and Mark Driscoll. This is off topic but your question has been the basis of discussion with many associates for the last 6 months, many recently leaving an authoritarian church. They knew exactly what they were buying. But you need to make sure you hear the second truth. We saw the Dallas Morning News drop TVC story like it had Ebola germs on it despite knowing that parents were not being warned of a pedophile in their midst. They noted that since the pandemic began, they have taken very stringent precautions at each service, including: take temperatures at the door, fog-sanitize their auditorium, sanitize the childrens areas and common areas multiple times daily and provide masks to everyone who attends. I want to know what is so bad about the church and why people dislike it. Yeah, these are the things that keep me from believing that MD has changed. Some great insights there, Bob. Is there a third way that I have overlooked? He returned to Maryland in March 1965, when he was assigned to an Assembly of God church in Cresaptown, just south of Cumberland. . I am thinking that is no doubt true, but Saul/Paul was also a religious activist who had double crossed his former sponsors in Jerusalem who had given him credentials to go seek out believers for persecution. Ill be honest I dont see Christ in it. Thats an interesting thought. If the congregation, the pew sitter as you say, cannot do it what does that leave? Personally I am not really all that interested in what the celebrites do as in endorsing, spinning events or behavior, etc. Ironically, in giving this speech, Lindell was doing just that shooting the wounded. This has nothing to do with the recent downfall of Mark and demise of Mars Hill. The Reformed Neo Cal world is going, Mark who?. And probably they wont. In a statement Monday, the Christian County Health Department said they also received numerous complaints from the community about the services and urged those who attended to monitor themselves for COVID-19 symptoms over the next 14 days. A friend of the family stated the same. https://www.youtube.com/watchv=i7lv9oMjv_0&sns=em&app=desktop. Matthew 27:33-34 How can a reasonable person look past that? Its meant only to address the deception of certain megas. They secretly instigated men who said here come the false charges. But maybe power is just something that is too tempting for him to handle and in order for him to live out his life following Christ, it may be something he must never let pass his lipsmuch like alcoholics cannot drink again. When he agreed to accept an $850,000 annual pay package while other staff were being laid off due to declining offerings, was he in a fugue state, incapable of understanding what was going on? Ok, so i am seeing that a lot of people do not like this church. I think those that experience an event that is very bad or painful are often the lucky ones because you really cant second guess leaving. Then he could claim more fictional persecution. And did he threaten to punch Pastor Lindell in the nose and throw him under the bus if he wasnt given the gig? Newer ones have theater seating or individual chairs. Hillsong church head Brian Houston accused alleged child abuse victim of tempting father, inquiry told, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2783128/Hillsong-church-founder-offered-sex-abuse-victim-10000-meeting-McDonalds-restaurant.html. Hosted at every James River Church campus. excerpts from rob smiths post :https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/. we see this in culture and politics all the time. So I can see why some churches would want him on board. Does it lie with Driscoll/Chandler or does it lie with the people whom they want to trust them? Consider how he attained it fleecing the flock. What I didnt know until this year is how much they are invading their universities as well. If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. Now the shock will be realizing how far theyve strayed from those virtues. Christians have to be different than that. The issue, however, is character, evidenced by a pattern of behavior reported with regard to bullying behavior, narcissitic traits, etc. Or alcoholics working in a bar. http://mercysurvivors.com/2014/03/06/mercy-ministries-peru-309k-and-no-cherry/#more-1348. Its a measure of arrogance. https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/. But what does that mean in the larger picture? Im so used to the megas Velcro bars where they only care about you if they can slap some Velcro on you to make you come back so you can become a tithe payer. These Pentecostals keep insisting that almost everything written on the internet about Mark Driscoll isnt even close to the truth. You have a holy responsibility to lead your flock in truth and light yet you are deliberately misleading them. Im not as strong or wise as Lydia, but I hope to provide valuable insights based on my experience so that those with eyes to see and ears to hear get out and get out quickly. That idea was right before the idea that they were always having to give a lot of money to the church while we have voluntary giving. . It could be that they are as ignorant as I once was, but it makes me distrust their judgment and discernment and dislike them all the same. If his values were disdained he would have a far better chance of turning away from the corruption that has engulfed his life so far. Q. People who are not religious, like me, are generally skeptical of religious institutions and their goals. Lindell needs to state, specifically, what has been written about Driscoll that is a lie, because he is in effect calling all the victims and the 40 pastors/elders who filed formal charges against MD liars.
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